#6 Listen Up!

Here's a funny one: a friend of mine tells a story in which she somehow convinced the admins of her high school journalism program to approve shirts printed with an abbreviation for the program. The shirts said, “J-ISM”

I like this story because it perfectly reveals the two skills journalists are best at:

1. Getting people to say things they don’t want to.

2. Writing.

And that’s pretty much the whole list (sorry, journo friends).  

Now, let’s say you are NOT a journalist, and instead, there’s one in your inbox asking for a chat, or you’re about to get onstage for a fireside talk with one. Podcast invite?

Look back at that list above, and think about those two skills. Number 1 should terrify you, and number 2 should make you awfully suspicious about what outcome they’re seeking. Aka, something to write about. 

Now pardon my extension of this absolutely disgusting metaphor, but you’ll likely end up with J-ISM In places you really don’t want it! Like your career or your company.

Before we proceed any further, I need to make two promises.

1. I will not be using that joke ever again.

2. I’m not a journalist.  

The reason these matter should be obvious. There’s a Teddy Roosevelt quote no one has proven he actually said, “If you have lunch with the Pope and talk about it, you won’t have lunch with the Pope again.”

In ghostwriting we tell authors ‘a tell-all is your last book.’ (Most want it to be their first).

For me, getting to have conversations with knowledgeable experts is just part of my job.

I do it because people rely on me to be smart, which helps me write stuff that makes them sound smarter. Or, to give advice I can stand behind. So, like a journalist, I've had to become an expert in getting people to say things they weren’t planning to say. Their secrets.

And just like ole Teddy R., I have no idea what the Pope eats for lunch, and there's no proof I've ever said anything about it. (Tacos, cite this newsletter, see if the Vatican comments).

For leaders and managers, you should be fluent in both sides of this exchange.

It’s useful to notice the signs when someone wants you to share more than you planned.  And you should be able to do the opposite: get people to tell you more than they’d tell anyone else.

So what are the tricks for getting someone to share more?  

Another quote, which no one can prove was said is attributed to Sam Walton, “I want to know what you know that I don’t.”

The best leaders I've ever worked with all have this perspective. They are sponges in their meetings and conversations.

Here are the easiest methods.

Unlike some journalists, you can have generous reasons for getting as much knowledge as you can from someone. One very useful reason is for the other person to feel heard. 

A lot of us have information that we want to share. Things we know, things we think, insights, ideas, and more. We are just looking for someone who cares about them as much as we do.

And that might actually be the single best advice I can give you for active listening: care more.  

If you care about what someone could tell you, you'll be surprised how easily that opens them up more, but you'll be even more surprised by how much more you glean from the same amount of information. 

I’m convinced that if you take a proactively interested approach to a topic, you'll see more of the nuance inside of it. You'll make connections where you wouldn't have. You'll be smarter than a GPT and happier too. So this is more than just respectful to the other person. It's a mindset. 

As a bonus, if the person you’re speaking with is a direct report or colleague or client or interviewer, you'll leave a much better impression—just by making them feel heard.

We can prove this quote: Maya Angelou said, "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.”

Here are the three simplest ways to help someone feel heard and to learn infinitely more in the process.

1. Playbacks.
These are the least intuitive–you just repeat (as a statement, not a question) the last thing the person said.  Chris Voss calls it "mirroring," but he also means it to include body language and general affect which are both true but not necessary.

You don't need to be an FBI negotiator to use playbacks.  

The reason playbacks work is there's a natural cadence to conversation - one person speaks, the other person speaks, etc. At any turnover, the conversation could go in any new direction.  Your only goal is to keep the other person setting the directions, never you.

Them: "Hey, I'm going to Vegas this weekend."

You: "Oh cool! Where are you staying?" 

In this scenario, your conversation is now about a hotel, and that’s your fault. You changed the direction, just from some habit of trying to keep it moving. But this isn’t hacky sack you hippy! Instead, consider:

Them: "Hey, I'm going to Vegas this weekend."

You: "You're going to Vegas."

Them: "Yeah there's a conference there, and I'm just trying not to get fired."

You: "You're trying not to get fired." 

Them: "Yeah our company has new owners and I need like 6 more months to vest a big milestone."

Now you’re onto something a little better than dining options at the Wynn. We're learning that he's on the open market for new opportunities soon, we're learning some M&A gossip, and more. Most importantly, we're learning the meta data of what this person wanted to talk about.

2. Open prompts.
Open questions are questions with no specific answer. Like, "What makes you say that?" 

Obviously you’ve been taught to avoid asking yes/no questions, but I've always been surprised by how hard people try to think of original or unique open questions. Don’t bother! There's only like four. Just memorize them in your own voice and you'll be fine. 

"Tell me more."  "What makes you say that?"/"Why do you say that?" "How does that affect you personally?" 

Here’s a sleeper open Q that has opened up hundreds of millions of dollars of confidential information: 

"I sense frustration." 

Deployed at the right moment, this one can turn a tense conversation into the open door of a bank vault.

Also, do these things sound like something your therapist says?  They should.  Channel it. Create a safe and confidential space for people to tell you the truth.

Nothing is ever more valuable than reality.

3. My personal favorite, "I'm curious."
"I'm curious about that" is probably one of the best conversational hacks I've added to my repertoire in the last two years.

I started using it as a trick for engaging strangers despite my autist tendencies.

It really does open people up and put them at ease, even if you are weird! But over the years I’ve noticed something a lot more valuable about using this phrase as often as you can: by saying it enough, you will truly become more curious.

Perpetual curiosity is a trait I see in every successful leader, of any type. Yet as we age, it’s a trait that dulls. Adding this phrase to my habits has been almost life-changing.

Anyway, try these out over the upcoming holiday.

To see how long you can keep your uncle talking at the dinner table, try playbacks. To see if you can get your aunt to tell you a secret she's never intended to share, try open prompts. And to see how much you can learn whenever you meet a stranger, make them know you are curious. 

And finally, be respectful with what you learn. Gawker is dead for a reason. And if somebody does help you out and teach you something, I recommend the two words in English which have no match in their power. The two most important words in my life could also change yours: thank you.

Truly, thank you,
Jesse

PS: As you might know, when I'm not behind a keyboard, I really enjoy making stuff. I've built my own house a few times, I make furniture, and since I've had to spend a lot more time around the house once we had kids–I really like making pizzas, breads, and pastas.  

This spring I got way into hand-carving my own french rolling pin. Over the summer, it became my little evening un-wind to head out to the shop and carve after all my girls are in bed. So then I made a little eComm site to sell them, if you are interested. In a bready play on words and search for the cheapest domain, it’s at woodandgrain.studio. And please forgive me for more overly-simple web dev in Squarespace—I've always preferred moving people more than pixels.

There are only as many in stock as I made this summer, and I'll just take the site down when those are gone. (My winter project is to restore a wood boat). But if you roll your own pie crusts this Thanksgiving (and don't want to be judged by your generic Sur-la-Table or Williams Sonoma pin spun out by a computer in China), order now.

PSS: Sharing is DARING. I recently listened to a great conversation with Gokul Rajaram on the Aarthi and Sriram pod, in which they made an offhand remark that older people share less (which limits the viral effect of a product like Pinterest, compared to say TikTok).  

So try to think how young and free and alive you're going to feel when you send this newsletter to your friends!  

Thank you as always,
Jesse